Comments for First Two Years at http://www.18to88.com , comment 1 to 18 out of 18 comments http://www.18to88.com Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:51:28 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-653 I'd say it's fair to say that your impressions were too strong, but not 100% unfounded...just overstated. Gonzo has things he has to work on. He has to take the leap. The good news is that there is every reason to realistically expect him to do so. We can all hope for Tony Ugoh to take the leap...there's little indication right now that he's likely to. That's an unfounded hope, perhaps. In Gonzo's case, we hope he takes the leap, but it's also supported by the evidence. It's a reasonable hope. - DZ Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:27:00 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-652 Thanks for finding that. My perceptions of Gonzo's performance do not appear to be supported by the stats that have popped up. It is nice to see that at least at some point; there were others with the same perception. By the way . ... where do I send the support check? - tjbindy Thu, 03 Sep 2009 05:40:26 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-647 I did write that and have thought about it several times in this debate. The problem I have is one of degree. Gonzo did drop a few passes last year (two against the Bears, one against the Texans come to mind). He did come up short on a few third downs. However, the strong negative reaction that I had to the TJBindy has to do with an email he wrote me before this topic touched off in the comments. [b]"How about an article about the pathetic receiving corps. Frankly; Marvin Harrison with sticky hands but slow a step is better, and possibly still quicker, than Gonzalez, Garcon, Hall, Matthews, and all of the other stiffs we have trotted out there. NO WAY would Marvin have dropped that pass Gonzalez did, nor would he have given up that INT Painter got charged with against the Lions."[/b] While I see room for Gonzo to improve, there is a loooong way from what I said last January and calling him "pathetic". I also can't remember if I wrote that before or after his brilliant play in the first half of the playoff game... - DZ Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:55:17 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-645 Hey DZ, Just thought I'd point out that in your 2008 predictions wrap-up you said (and I quote): "AG improved visibly almost every week, but still dropped too many passes and ran too many routes short of the sticks." It would appear that at least at some point you agreed with tjbindy to some extent. I think this means that although he had a very high catch percentage and DVOA, he must have been dropping passes and running crappy routes that got your attention. Perception is not always reality, but it does make an impression. - sprfrk Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:43:22 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-627 Hey CLTSSB, "A-Gonz" is never going to catch on. Just stop it right now. - LukeM Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:49:17 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-623 2 Reggie Waynes on the field. That would sure make me happy. - Cass Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:48:26 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-616 That's fine. We'll agree to let it go and reevaluate it at the end of the season. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the jump in performance from AG. BTW: what happened in Harrison's fourth year was that Peyton Manning was in his second year as QB. AG won't be Marvin Harrison. No one ever could be. We'll never see a WR his equal in Indy. He could be Reggie Wayne, however. - DZ Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:23:28 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-615 It is time for this one to die. With respect to what we have; Reggie, Dallas, and Gonzo are clearly the top 3 receivers. Gonzo has earned the right to line up opposite Reggie; just not sure he has it in him to step up his game this year. Heck; it took Marvin til his 4th year before he really stepped up to the level we need Gonzo to be at this year. A repeat of last year's stats is not enough. Personally, I am very conservative and would feel better with a proven veteran that may have lost a step or two; than a youngster with some promise. If this team were rebuilding rather than reloading; I would be leaning the other way too. - tjbindy Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:16:38 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-612 I wish he had had a full year too, but the NFL seems to have voted: Marvin is done. Peyton and Marvin had so many years together, that they shouldn't have needed a ton of time to get in synch. Marvin's numbers did improve slightly in the second half, but not enough to convince me that he had a lot left. The fact that no one seems to want Harrison speaks pretty loudly to how the league viewed his play last year. - DZ Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:28:51 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-611 Am I the only one that thinks Marvin would have had a great season this year after a FULL off-season with Peyton? Last year Peyton did the OTAs and Minicamps then his bursa sac went off the deep end. Marvin was rehabbing is knee all summer and wasn't available until training camp. So he and Peyton had NO time together before the season started. Regardless I think A-Gonz will be fine - Cltssb44 Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:24:30 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-610 This is silly. I love Marvin and always will, but let's talk about what we have, rather that what we could have. So by your rationale, you would rather have Garcon than Gonzo in the starting lineup. Or anyone else on the roster that can catch NOT AS WELL as him. You sir, are just arguing to argue at this point. You posted something that made little sense and are defending your position not because it is right, but because you said it earlier. Even when a fact is presented to refute your argument, you will just say "agree to disagree." To that I have 2 things to say 1. Whale's vagina 2. When in Rome - Derek Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:16:39 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-607 Without question, right now, Anthony Gonzalez is dramatically better than Harrison, and I would much rather see the ball come his way in clutch time. [b]Last two playoff games:[/b] Gonzalez 10 Catches, 176 yards, 1 TD (fourth quarter to take the lead). He had 97 yards in the first half of last year's Chargers loss. He got hurt just before half time and the Colts' chances went with him. Harrison: 5 for 57 and a fumble. Catch percentage is simple: number of catches divided by Number of times a QB threw at a WR You keep saying a WR needs to catch ALL passes, but Gonzo did that better than all but one guy in the NFL last year. What is it that you want from him? Reggie Wayne led the Colts with 8 drops last year. The year before it was Dallas Clark with 10. Gonzo dropped one meaningless preseason pass. Get over it. No one...no one in football catches EVERY pass. Every WR drops passes from time to time. The numbers show that AG is primed to become a 70-80 catch, 1000 yard WR this year. Everything on and off the field points to it. His numbers trend to it. Does he actually have to show up and do it? Sure, but honestly, that's one of the least questionable things to happen this year. It's so obvious that I didn't even put it in our prediction piece, because everyone already knows it's a lock. Marvin was the one who couldn't get open any more. - DZ Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:28:35 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-606 If Marvin and Reggie did not improve on their numbers from the first 2 years; we would not be talking about them as elite receivers .. ..and neither should we be talking about Gonzo as an elite receiver. A receiver needs to catch ALL passes, not just "meaningful" ones. Not sure what the equation for catch percentage is .. .but frankly; if a player is not open and the QB doesn't throw to them ...then I am sure that doesn't count against the receiver. So; a really slow receiver that can't get separation from a defensive back is gonna have a great catch percentage because the only time he can be thrown to is when a defensive back blows a coverage. So ....if I understand you folks correctly . ... .Game on the line ...you would feel more comfortable throwing to Gonzo than to Marvin? If your answer to this is yes ... .then we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. As a Colts fan; I hope Gonzo turns into the player that most of you think he already has become. - tjbindy Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:38:33 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-605 Dude, what has AG ever done to make you think he doesn't play hard? He dropped one pass. The word on him is that he's one of the hardest workers on the team. You aren't paying very close attention. DVOA means that he catches meaningful passes. First downs. Touch downs. Good gains on first and 10. His stats are not "average" for a second year player. They are GREAT for a second player. They are on pace with the stats of the two best WRs in Colts history. He has four catches and a TD, and a long TD play taken away by a defensive pass interference penalty in the preseason. Reggie Wayne has three catches and a TD in the preseason. What are you even talking about? - DZ Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:18:09 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-603 Being a DVOA monster is like being a great "Ratio" pitcher in fantasy baseball. An interesting stat . . .but nothing more than that. Looks like they take everything into consideration except his birthdate and his mother's maiden name. At this point, the only thing that can be truly said is that he has average stats for a 2 year player. If he steps it up this year; than he has earned his position. If he stays the same and doesn't step it up the way Marvin and Reggie did; he is nothing but mediocre. His pre-season performance so far has not show "stepping it up". Yes, it is pre-season .. I understand . . .but I would rather have a player that plays hard regarless of the meaning of the game. A guy that plays hard ALL of the time just because he loves to play the game. Frankly; I realize this is a rare trait at this time in our society. - tjbindy Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:24:19 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-598 Someone mentioned the Star Wars post earlier, and in a reloated note (ebscure though) doesn't the Viking's coach look like Frank Oz (voice of Yoda) - bubbadeez Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:02:58 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-592 that's "puts OFF" law school.... - Bob M Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:22:52 +0100 http://www.18to88.com/2009-archives/august/first-two-years.html#comment-591 He is very good and should be great soon enough. Surrounding cast doesn't hurt that. But historically, what has happened in the NFL? Take a look at 3 roughly comparable seasons: Marvin's 1st, Reggie's 2nd, and Gonzo's 2nd. Marvin's TDs stand out and Gonzo's catch % as well. But look at the DVOAs and the NFL rank. Gonzo is a DVOA monster--is it all catch percentage? I think DVOA includes 1st down conversions also, plus a few other items. I mean, how the hell does a rookie lead the NFL in DVOA? And he was 3rd in a season when they had on run support. Nothing but good things down the road for that guy. I hope he puts of law school for a few years. - Bob M Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:17:08 +0100